Reproduction Chanco neckerchief patches on eBay

This month several Chanco neckerchief patches have been available for auction on eBay. The seller advertises them as "jacket patches" but collectors in the know will quickly recognize them as a Chanco P3 ("P" indicating the patch is shaped like a slice of pie, and "3" indicating the third issue of this variety from Chanco Lodge). There are three pie shaped Chanco patches. All have essentially the same design and all were made to be sewn to a dark yellow cloth neckerchief. The P1 has no fleur d'lis, while the P2 adds one. The P3 has the same design as the P2 but is a "computer designed" version so the details are more precise.

I was offered a chance to buy a Chanco P3 patch and promised by the seller it was authentic. He sent me a photo of the item and I studied it closely and believed it was authentic. Since I didn't have a P3 in my collection I requested assistance from three other longtime Virginia OA collectors (one a former member of Chanco lodge) to validate its authenticity after it arrived.

Before I had a chance to send them pictures I noticed an auction for another Chanco P3 from the same seller. Already beginning to doubt my purchase I asked him how many he had and where they came from. The seller advised me he thought he had six but wasn't sure, and he bought the patches at a sports show in Milwaukee mixed in among a group of 50 mostly military items for a fixed price, and believed them all to be authentic.

After examining samples of the patch and comparing it to known authentic versions we have all concluded that the recent eBay versions are reproductions and not a variation of the original P3 patches. OAimages.com does not have adequate data to provide a value for the Chanco 483 P3, but one from the collection of Jeff Godby sold for $255 in January of this year. One of the reproductions just sold for $76 and an auction for another one is currently at $46.59. It is quite likely that the bidders believe these to be authentic items since the patches are nearly identical to the originals and the auction description says:

YOU ARE BIDDING ON A PERFECT CONDITION
Chanco Lodge 483 Jacket patch
100% REFUND IF NOT SATISFIED WITH PATCH

I decided to request a refund for my reproduction 483 P3 which the seller graciously agreed to send as soon as he receives the patch. For those of you contemplating bidding on this item, know that it is not an authentic issue of Chanco Lodge and there may be hundreds more where these came from. Since the design is so incredibly close to the original I suspect the reproductions were made from the punch patterns used to fill the original order by the lodge in the late 1990's.

Throughout this article are pictures of the front and back of both an authentic Chanco Lodge P3 and the reproduction found on eBay recently, as well as closeups to help you discern the differences if you happen to encounter one at a trade-o-ree or conclave.  Click on each to see larger versions.

The details that differentiate the reproductions from the original are extremely subtle and without direct comparison with an authentic issue are virtually impossible to discern. The solid embroidered green background of the original is almost perfectly horizontal while the background stitching of the reproduction is slightly angled. The reproduction patch is also slightly smaller than the original, but only by a few millimeters, so you would be hard pressed to notice the difference without a direct comparison. Below is a photograph of the newer patch on top of a known authentic 483 P3.

Michael McCaughan provided the above photo and reports that the brown thread colors on the newer patch are noticeably darker than those of the original. 

One of the tell-tale details on the front of the patch that will help you differentiate it from an authentic Chanco P3 is the detail in the end of the arrow. On an authentic version the arrow shaft blends with the fletching, while on the reproduction the details are much more precise and the shaft is quite defined.

Robert Rudd kindly emailed me to point out that the curves on the FDL's are quite different. On the fake version the tips point upwards, while on the authentic version the tips point to the side.

Perhaps the most easily spotted difference on the front of the patch is the way that the numbers 4 and 8 are embroidered in the text spanning the top. 

On the authentic version the horizontal bar in the number 4 crosses OVER the vertical line, while on the reproduction the bar crosses UNDER the vertical line. You'll also notice the number 8 has a difference as well. The line crossing at the center goes from top left to bottom right on the original, and from top right to bottom left on the fake.


Perhaps the most obvious difference is on the reverse of the patch, where the white bands in the brave's hair are significantly wider on the new patch compared to the original.

I hope this will help you spot this new patch and avoid disappointment.  If you have any additional details please share them in the comments below or feel free to email me directly.


My sincere thanks to DeWitt Holland, Larry Johnson, and Michael McCaughan for their photographs and kind assistance in researching this emblem.

New Kecoughtan fake patches surface on eBay

In early March, 2011 several auctions for Kecoughtan patches appeared on eBay for items that typically sell for far more than the seller was offering at "Buy it now" prices. A close examination of the pictures accompanying the auctions led me to believe that the items were not authentic, but I withheld judgement until I had a chance to compare actual samples with versions that I know to be authentic.

The patches in question are the silver A6 arrowhead patch issued in 1976 for the Lodge's 25th Anniversary, and the round R5 issue that features an acorn on a black background with an arrow extending on both sides beyond the circular border. This patch, designed for use on a baseball type hat, was originally issued in 1993.

These patches are not easily discerned as reproductions. The seller, in fact, describes them in his eBay auctions as "A PERFECT CONDITION OA KECOUGHTAN LODGE 463 PATCH." The silver arrowhead, in particular, is very close to the original, and from the front could easily be mistaken for an authentic A6 if you didn't have a known real issue to compare it with. The fake round patch has a noticeable curve to the bottom tip of the acorn that is not present on the original. The easiest way to tell them from real versions is to examine the backs - the fakes have a smooth white fabric reverse material while the originals have very evident rough grid patterns. See the pictures at kecoughtan.com for more details.

When I contacted the seller with my findings he offered to refund my money and told me he purchased the patches at a Chicago collectibles show in March of 2010 from a booth selling many types of patches. The eBay seller says he is not familiar with Scout patches and says he was convinced by the booth seller they were authentic.

Don't be fooled by these recent fakes whose only worth is as a curiosity. The real versions of the 463 A6 arrowheads are generally valued between $50-$75 and the real R5 typically goes for between $20-$35. The seller is offering "Buy it now" prices of $14.99 for each of these fakes as well as auctioning some. There is no telling how many of these were actually produced.

Fake of Kecoughtan S4 found on eBay

Recently I spotted on eBay a crude fake of a 463s5, the white background Kecoughtan 25th Anniversary flap with black border and lettering. The seller was located in Okinawa and advised me that it was purchased at Flight Patch Shop on Gate 2 Street and was the only one available.

The differences in the fake and the real version are so extreme that it's virtually impossible to confuse them unless you know absolutely nothing about Kecoughtan issues. The fake has a cut edge and the embroidered design is ragged and uneven. Above is a picture of the Okinawa version from 2010 and below is a picture of the actual item from 1976.

Can you spot the fake Kecoughtan Brotherhood flap?

Kecoughtan Lodge issued it's first flap recognizing Brotherhoods status in 1987. The S-10 issue is virtually identical to the S-6a and S-6b versions of the Lodge flap, except the arrow piercing the acorn is reduced slightly in size to make room for Brotherhood bars added at each end. A Vigil version of the flap was also produced, adding the Vigil triangle totem to the center of the acorn, at first behind the "W" (S-11) and later in front of it (S-12)

The Kecoughtan flaps featuring confederate flags were replaced with new designs in 1989 at the demand of a new Council executive. S13, 14, and 15 displayed the three ships that landed at Jamestown in 1607, and a special flap with this design was created specifically for the 1989 Boy Scout Jamboree (S-16).

Coincidentally, the 1989 Boy Scout Jamboree held at Fort AP Hill, Virginia, was where the first and only known Kecoughtan Lodge fake flaps were introduced by sources still unknown. The fake flaps were computer-designed reproductions of the Lodge's S-10 Brotherhood flap, and continue to fool many collectors and traders even to this day since their likeness is so similar to the genuine article.

Looking at the picture above can you tell which flap is an official issue from Kecoughtan Lodge and which is the unauthorized reproduction? Here are the clues you can use to spot the imposter:

The REAL Kecoughtan Lodge S-10 Brotherhood flap features:

• white outline stitching has small amount of black space next to acorns and flags
• large "W" in center acorn has a pointed center peak
• FDL in center acorn is wider and has one dimensional appearance (not 3 segments)
• stars on flag are not well defined, hard to see "points"
• number "6" in "463" is blocky (not rounded)
• top Brotherhood bar above the arrow does not touch the flag on the left side

The FAKE Kecoughtan Lodge ZS-1 Brotherhood flap features:

• white outline stitching is tight and close to acorns and flags.
• large "W" in middle acorn has a flat center peak
• FDL in center acorn is skinny with 3 discernable components (center and 2 side parts)
• stars on flags are sharp and defined, each with 5 points
• number "6" in "463" is rounded
• top Brotherhood bar above the arrow touches the flag on the left side

Now can you tell which one is fake? If you chose the bottom flap in the picture, you're right.

You can view all of the official Lodge 463 flaps on the Kecoughtan Lodge Flap Issues page. Fakes and other unauthorized emblems are cataloged on the Unauthorized/Unofficial Issues page.

Is it an issue, a variation, a fake, or a mistake?

There is an auction for a flap from Wahunsenakah Lodge on eBay right now that would puzzle most collectors not closely familiar with the patches from this Lodge. The patch up for bid is a lodge flap that was issued for the 1998 SR-7A conclave, and if you look in the Blue Book you'd see that that issue is classified as the S-8.

OAimages.com values the S-8 between $2.69 and $14.89 with an average value of $7.16. Even though the flap is ten years old it's considered a fairly common item and an easy find for your collection if you need it. So why is this auction showing a current high bid of over $100 with over 4 days left to go?

A comparison of the flap picture in the auction and the picture at oaimages.com or at kecoughtan.com would show one very small, but significant difference. The FDL (fleur d'lis) that is embroidered into the patch up for auction is black. The one in the picture from oaimages.com and kecoughtan.com is light green, so that the FDL is "ghosted" into the background:

I'm not sure how many of the S-8 flaps with black FDL's exist, nor how they came to be in circulation. More than a few OA flaps have been duplicated by Asian patchmakers and sold on eBay but this hardly appears to be the case here. The most obvious explanation would be a manufacturer's error.

I am fortunate to have one of these in my own Wahunsenakah collection, but it was sheer luck and not because I sought it. I always considered it just an error item.

Some would argue that this flap should be listed in the Blue Book as a variation, e.g. S-8b. I am not sure that I can agree with that since I don't know the history of the flap.

If the Lodge received some flaps with black FDL's and sent them back to the manufacturer as misprints and received credit or replacements with green FDL's they probably never intended the black FDL versions to reach the public. Similarly they may have been samples that the Lodge returned with a revision request to the manufacturer, and somehow the samples got out. Are they still an "official" Lodge 333 issue?

Regardless, it appears that for collectors who seek one of every Wahunsenakah Lodge flap this has already become a highly sought after patch. If you have information about the history or scarcity of it, please share it with me!

Black bordered Chanco flap mystery

My friend Tim Ewing has a black bordered flap from Chanco Lodge. This item is quite a mystery, because there is no listing in any emblem reference of Lodge 483 ever producing a flap with a black border. I've consulted DeWitt Holland, who knows more about Chanco issues than anyone else I know, to see if he might be aware of a prototype or sample Chanco flap, and his reply was: "I AM 100 PERCENT SURE CHANCO LODGE NEVER MADE ANY FLAP WITH A BLACK BORDER."

The patch appears to be the same design as a Chanco S1 flap, as there is no FDL and it has a cloth back. There are imperfections in the green background embroidery just to the left of the word "Lodge" and directly above the brave's head where the twill base material is evident. These areas are also evident on the back of the patch.



Michael McCaughan, an avid collector of Virginia OA items, speculates that the patch may have been rebordered as a sample by the manufacturer. That theory may explain why some trace of yellow is visible under the black threads. A permanent marker would probably bleed into nearby areas beyond the merrowed edge.

Do you have information or theories about this patch? If so please post your comments here.

More clues about the 463 S4.5, aka QS1

In 1976, to celebrate their 25th anniversary, Kecoughtan Lodge issued a special version of their Lodge flap with a white background and black border. This was the first significant change in the flap design since the original S1 was issued in 1953. S2 only added a rolled edge, and S3 (popularly called the "stubby" among 463 collectors) was just a longer version of the same classic design (you can review all Kecoughtan flaps on this page).

Twenty three years of the same design is a long time, but as I recall from my days as a Kecoughtan officer in the early 70's few adults were eager to approve changes. Patch collecting was viewed by many professionals as distracting to the real purpose of the OA, and several of the Lodges in the old Area III-C had only recently changed "one per life" restrictions on their lodge flap patches.

To this day some mystery surrounds one version of the white background Kecoughtan flap, first listed in the Blue Book Order of the Arrow Standard Insignia Guide as "QS1." The "Q" designation is supposed to indicate a patch that was rejected by the Lodge (presumably for concerns about quality or incorrect design) and returned to the manufacturer, but somehow released to collectors. "Q" issues are not considered fakes, but neither are they considered "official" issues of the Lodge.


The "QS1" version has a white background and white "W's" but no border around the acorns or confederate flags. Two other varieties of the white background flap exist: S4 has white "W's" with black stitching around the acorns and flags, and S5 has black W's with black stitching around the acorn and flags. In later versions of the Blue Book the "QS1" flap has been designed S4.5, which acknowledges the patch as an official issue of the Lodge, but it is still unclear in what order these three patches were released, and the story behind the changes remains elusive.

I don't recall the precise restriction on the anniversary flaps. I was in my freshman year of college but had retained my Lodge and Council membership through the College Scouter Reserve program, and I seem to remember that I was able to buy two of them.

Information provided to me by Dr. Ron Godby in March of 1996 shows a quantity of 220 ordered for the S4, 220 for the S5, with the "QS1" quantity unknown.

Within the past week I received email from two former Kecoughtan arrowmen who were active in the lodge when it celebrated it's anniversary in 1976 who commented on the history of this patch. Former Chief Morris Friedman says:

"I would agree with Sam Fairchild that this actually was an authorized issue. As I recall, one loom run was made and the flaps were sold, and then it was decided that they would look better with black outlining of the white W's, and then finally the W's were switched to black. All three issues were sold to lodge members as 25th Anniversary flaps."

I will continue to research the history behind this unique flap, which is considered by many to be the most sought after issue of Kecoughtan Lodge. In June, 2005 a 463 QS1/S4.5 sold on ebay for 270.00, and pricing information at The Internet Guide to OA Insignia shows this patch valued at nearly double the S4 and S5 issues.

Crude fake of 463X15 purchased from eBay

In February I saw a Kecoughtan patch on eBay that I have never seen before, nor have seen since. The patch is very crude reproduction of the Kecoughtan X15 oval patch that was issued in 1991 to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the Lodge. The item was listed by ebay seller "rdgchf" and the description included a picture and simply said "Fake. This is the only one I have. No other information available. FREE SHIPPING." The patch cost me a total of $5.50. I asked the seller via email if there were any more and his reply was "The individual that I got it from told me there were only two of it made. No further information available."

According to eBay, "rdgchf" is no longer a registered user, though he was listing and selling fake patches as recently as mid-May.

I've added this patch to the list of fakes on the Unauthorized Issues page of the web site.